Starting Over!

[Cathy S]

Hi Gee

No - although this isn't legislation (yet) the Health and Safety Executive are encouraging good practice in improving healthy lifestyles.   Not only is extended breastfeeding better for baby, it has health benefits for Mums too.

I think this link is okay to post http://www.healthpromotionagency.org.uk/Resources/workwell/pdfs/Breastfeeding_Workwell.pdf - Susan please advise if you want me to take it down but it isn't a commercial site.

Although this is not legislation a company which denies a woman the facilities to continue breastfeeding on her return to work could possibly face a challenge under sex discrimination legislation.


AND just in case anyone is wondering ... no ... I'm not ... so no impending announcements! We had a circular at work about it just after this thread started 

Cathy

[msmarieh]

Here in the US breastfeeding is protected by law as well. It has nothing to with religion and everything to do with the health of the child and mother.

[gee4]

But why would a woman do that in work instead of her own home?  Unless she brings her baby to work and there are creche facilities?

Curious.

[Cathy S]

Its about choice and personalisation*  ... in many cases they won't breastfeed in work but will express milk so health benefits are retained by both Mum and Baby.

Cathy

* for anyone who doesn't work in the UK public sector - personalisation is the new buzz word which essentially recognises that whilst everyone has the right to be treated without discrimination, everyone also needs different things to benefit

[gee4]

Interesting.  I wonder how many employees/employers know about this.

Would an employer have to implement if the law gets passed?

[officepa]

Mmmmm, "personalisation", I have heard that word creeping into various meetings lately and thanks Cathy for explaining it - now I understand it better - tho not sure people here have been using it in the correct way.....

Gee - I wondered why a mum would want to express at work if baby not there - s'pose that is OK if they are storing expressed milk in the fridge to take home - hope they clearly mark it.....   Mind you, what would they do at Gee's office, store it in the vending machine 

[gee4]

Indeed...I just think there would be serious questions asked as regards health and safety. 

My company are mostly males so not many females around that this would apply to.  Don't think they would go for it anyway.

[msmarieh]

Yes, they are definitely storing it for later (and I agree that I hope they are in well marked containers). There are several reasons for this. If a mother stops nursing for extended periods of time the volume of milk production will drop (since the body assumes that the baby must not need as much). In addition, having your breasts full of milk and not able to express can be quite painful for the woman. For those women who are working with infants at home (or in daycare), this is a way they can continue allowing the baby to receive breastmilk.

Unfortunately in the US we are nowhere near as progressive on our maternity laws. Most companies give just 8-12 weeks paid leave. You can do up to 12 months unpaid, but many people can't afford to do that. 

[gee4]

It just makes me think.....smokers already take additional breaks to feed their habit.  So if mothers are allowed extra breaks to express milk, where does that leave equality in the workplace as regards those who neither smoke nor express milk?!  Are those individuals allowed additional breaks?!

Also because we have longer periods of maternity leave in the UK, by the time mothers return to work, babies are usually past the age of being breast fed.

[dbreon]

Seriously?  You are going to compare smokers to breastfeeding mothers? 

[Cathy S]

It just makes me think.....smokers already take additional breaks to feed their habit. 

Not in my employer's eyes they don't! At my Induction recently it was underlined that smokers are not permitted to smoke in their discretionary tea breaks, they may only smoke in their lunch hour ... its the first time I have worked somewhere that this is reinforced and as a non-smoker I like the rule!

So if mothers are allowed extra breaks to express milk, where does that leave equality in the workplace as regards those who neither smoke nor express milk?!  Are those individuals allowed additional breaks?!

... this is where personalisation comes into play - an employer undertakes a risk assessment and if that employee needs to have breaks for something to avoid putting their health at risk it is up to the employee and the organisation to agree - it makes no difference to any other employee.  Equality means every employee has the right to request a risk assessment of their particular circumstances ...

Also because we have longer periods of maternity leave in the UK, by the time mothers return to work, babies are usually past the age of being breast fed.

... there is research that suggests that in the western world we stop breastfeeding too early and we should continue for much much longer ... in other words we have historically decided to stop breastfeeding to accommodate such things as returning to work ...

Cathy

[Cathy S]

Mmmmm, "personalisation", I have heard that word creeping into various meetings lately and thanks Cathy for explaining it - now I understand it better - tho not sure people here have been using it in the correct way.....

Hello Cathy

You must hear it big time at a University ... classic example because every student needs different things to be able to learn effectively - some folk respond to visual (Powerpoints, whiteboard, etc) whereas some learn best from doing a task and reflecting.  It is very challenging to deliver training (or education) in this context.

In my newly adopted field it is about providing personalisation in care for people ... and we have to do that whilst providing personalisation for staff members providing that care ...

... and for Laura in her new venture it could mean considering special dietary requirements, perhaps, so she offers her products to the wider market and they can trust that they won't get an allergic reaction ... or could even include adding a braille notice on the packaging ...

[gee4]

Not in my employer's eyes they don't! At my Induction recently it was underlined that smokers are not permitted to smoke in their discretionary tea breaks, they may only smoke in their lunch hour ... its the first time I have worked somewhere that this is reinforced and as a non-smoker I like the rule!

... this is where personalisation comes into play - an employer undertakes a risk assessment and if that employee needs to have breaks for something to avoid putting their health at risk it is up to the employee and the organisation to agree - it makes no difference to any other employee.  Equality means every employee has the right to request a risk assessment of their particular circumstances ...

I’m not being prejudice, but surely employers have to be careful in not showing favouritism to select groups of individuals.

You might as well say in order to get additional perks, I have to start smoking or become a breast-feeding mother. 

Lots of mothers who return to work still breast-feed but they don't express at work.  They return to work because they chose to.

[Jackie G]

I'm not sure that an employer can say that an employee can't smoke during a discretionary break, but only in their lunch break!

As for expressing milk once back at work, sometimes there are medical reasons for having to do this, so it's not for those of us who have no experience of it to judge.  As for women returning to work by the time babies have stopped being breastfed, not necessarily true.   I have heard of children being breast fed for quite some considerable time.

[Cathy S]

Discretionary breaks - the argument runs thus:

These are offered at the employers discretion during paid work time - ie it is not like a lunch break and unpaid.  The break is allowed in line with good health and safety practice of allowing office based workers a break from their DSE, and it is to stretch, move around and, in some cases have a hot or cold drink which may not normally be consumed at the work station. 

Many of us now simply have a brew when we like at our desk and don't take the discretionary breaks; there are some groups who are not working located together who use it as an impromptu team building session.

However during paid time employees may not leave the building, unless for business reasons, and therefore, in Scotland at least, smoking cannot take place ... in practice those who need to smoke try and time their business appointments so they are outwith the building at appropriate points in the day


Regarding favouritism Gee, that is why a risk assessment is required - to demonstrate that it is a real need that is being met ... perhaps if I move away from smokers and breast feeding mothers for a minute and use this example: 

• Elderly person 1 has fallen over a couple of times at home and is losing confidence.  Their home is in good repair, there are no trip hazards but they do have early signs of dementia and sometimes forget to stand up slowly and get their balance.  They have a spouse at home who helps keep the house well.
• Elderly person no 2 lives alone, shows no signs of dementia and their two falls have been hurrying along the hallway to answer the door and tripped over the loose carpet.

Everyone would agree that it is not appropriate for us as a society to ignore the fact that they are falling and at risk of injury. 

• Person no 1 would be likely to benefit from a more involved package of care which might include assistive technologies to alert their spouse when they start to stand (allows the spouse to continue their activities rather than sitting watching), they might find a walking frame or stick of assistance.
• Person no 2, however, from a risk assessment would benefit from having the loose carpet replaced or repaired and possibly a door intercom so they can let callers know they are on the way and don't need to hurry. 

The solution for no 1 is likely to be more expensive, but this is not showing favouritism, it is addressing the needs that they each have to help them to continue their independent living.

Cathy