PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

Hi all, I haven't been around for several months.  I visited from work, and I went on maternity leave back in October (baby boy joining his two older sisters).  Then 2 weeks before I was to return, my position was eliminated.  So here I am!  I have been trying since January to find another position with absolutely no luck.  I took advantage of the "outplacement" part of my package and was able to re-vamp my resume, but have had just two phone interviews, with nothing resulting from either.  I'm getting very discouraged!  Therefore, I am thinking of taking my baking hobby semi-professional for the summer and taking my wares to the local farmers markets.  I am in the process of getting my kitchen licensed & inspected by the state, setting up a facebook page, and will have a tasting party for my local friends within the next month.  Please wish me luck on this season's adventure and also for more of a corporate opportunity come fall!

Can that happen while you are out on maternity leave???  How awful for you Laura but congrats on your new arrival.  I'm sure you are being kept busy.

Fingers crossed your new venture goes well and great to hear from you again.

Best of luck.  :)

Good luck with your initiatve Laura ... of course if we could have samples we could give you some good business development advice? but then maybe your youngsters already perform this function for you?

Best wishes and let us know how you get on.

Cathy

Good luck Laura! Lots of opportunities with that license in hand.

Gee, unfortunately if the position is eliminated (especially with other positions as well), they can. They can't just fire you and replace you with someone else while you are out on maternity leave.

Yes Gee and Marie, that is exactly the case with me.  The division I worked for had the contract renegotiated and as a result several departments were eliminated.  This was especially vexing given I had been working from home for the month prior to my leave and this was to be a permanent move.  I have been trying to find another position with this same company, but it seems that it's all "who you know", and since the company is 35K employees, I haven't known the right people for those open slots!

That said, I still have all of the work-at-home company issued equipment, and have had no contact from the company on when they will be picking it up.  It's just sitting collecting dust!

Thanks for the luck, wish I could send you all samples!  I may ask a favor of any of you on facebook to become a fan of my page when I publish it. 

In the UK you cannot be made redundant while on maternity leave.

Generally they will hold the position open and tell you when you are released to return that the position no longer exists.   Different companies have different ways of handling the situations.

Laura, congratulations on your new arrival and best of luck in your new venture.  Let us know when you have the FB page up and I will become a fan.  One door closes and another opens.  It sounds like you are opening that door and that is great!  Do you have a signature item that you are best known for baking? 

This got me wondering Gee; in fact one can be made redundant whilst on Maternity Leave in the UK ... but not because one is taking Maternity Leave. 

There are strict requirements for an employer to follow if making someone on Maternity Leave redundant ... they must offer alternative suitable employment if available with them or an associate company ... they must not treat the woman on Maternity Leave at a disadvantage compared to anyone else being made redundant at the same time (ie there must be all the same consultations and alternative options explored) and the woman's right to Statutory Maternity Pay (SMP) is protected if she hasn't received it for 39 weeks already.

I suspect it rarely happens because it is likely to be difficult to prove that the woman has not been treated at a disadvantage and the threat of a Tribunal and a costly settlement to follow are sufficient to make the company look at other alternatives first.

It's somewhat similar here. You definitely can't be made redundant BECAUSE you are pregant or on maternity leave. It is part of a protected class, so there's special considerations and laws that apply.

However, if a company is closing a location, for example, then pregnant or not, you're included with the rest of the employees in the force reduction.

Cathy / Marie,

I agree that someone cannot be made redundant BECAUSE of being pregnant and that if a company closes there is very little that can be done.  However if a company is still in existance and only a position is made redundant, that person on return from maternity leave, in the first instance should be offered another job elsewhere in the company.

I've experienced redundancy as you know and in one instance my company closed overnight.  It was an American company who had set up in NI.  I had been off sick and was informed that our bosses had received a phone call telling us that we had been made redundant.  We were not even allowed into the building to collect our belongings until eventually a day or so later, it was agreed to let us in to take what was ours.  Thankfully we all met and had lunch, exchanged emails etc and my boss was able to provide me with a reference, but a very surreal situation and of course we never got a penny.

Laura, my whole department was downsized when I as on maternity leave.   

HOW many weeks do you get for maternity leave in the UK???? 39 weeks???  We get 6, 8 if you have a c-section, on top of that, if you take a week or two off before your due date and don't have "vacation" time.  That counts for the 6 to 8 weeks.   (Unless things have changed in the past 15 years)

Hi Jennika

Statutory Maternity Pay in the UK is for 39 weeks ... but how long a woman takes for Maternity Leave is very flexible and can include unpaid Maternity Leave too and doesn't have to be the full 39 weeks. 

We are trying to encourage parents to take more time off and to make it easier for woman to continue breastfeeding after return to work so employers now are required to provide facilities to allow breastfeeding/expressing milk and even a fridge for storage.

Cathy

Interesting....

After a company brief last week, we have been informed that vending machines will dispense free tea and coffee as of 19 April, with a view to eliminate fridges.

Isn't it strange how different companies operate?!

It really is interesting gee. Here, the coffee/tea would be unrelated to the fridge (except they do store milk in there), but people use the fridge's for holding their lunches that they bring in, so they wouldn't be happy about that.

I think the company are trying to eliminate the rotten lunches forgotten about at the back of the fridge that grow mould.  :o

They are offering milk with the vending machines.

Cathy, why would women be allowed to express milk at work anyway?  Is there a creche on site?

Hi Gee

No - although this isn't legislation (yet) the Health and Safety Executive are encouraging good practice in improving healthy lifestyles.   Not only is extended breastfeeding better for baby, it has health benefits for Mums too.

I think this link is okay to post http://www.healthpromotionagency.org.uk/Resources/workwell/pdfs/Breastfeeding_Workwell.pdf (http://www.healthpromotionagency.org.uk/Resources/workwell/pdfs/Breastfeeding_Workwell.pdf) - Susan please advise if you want me to take it down but it isn't a commercial site.

Although this is not legislation a company which denies a woman the facilities to continue breastfeeding on her return to work could possibly face a challenge under sex discrimination legislation.


AND just in case anyone is wondering ... no ... I'm not ... so no impending announcements! We had a circular at work about it just after this thread started  :)

Cathy

Here in the US breastfeeding is protected by law as well. It has nothing to with religion and everything to do with the health of the child and mother.

But why would a woman do that in work instead of her own home?  Unless she brings her baby to work and there are creche facilities?

Curious.

Its about choice and personalisation*  ... in many cases they won't breastfeed in work but will express milk so health benefits are retained by both Mum and Baby.

Cathy

* for anyone who doesn't work in the UK public sector - personalisation is the new buzz word which essentially recognises that whilst everyone has the right to be treated without discrimination, everyone also needs different things to benefit

Interesting.  I wonder how many employees/employers know about this.

Would an employer have to implement if the law gets passed?

Mmmmm, "personalisation", I have heard that word creeping into various meetings lately and thanks Cathy for explaining it - now I understand it better - tho not sure people here have been using it in the correct way.....

Gee - I wondered why a mum would want to express at work if baby not there - s'pose that is OK if they are storing expressed milk in the fridge to take home - hope they clearly mark it..... ;)  Mind you, what would they do at Gee's office, store it in the vending machine  ;D

Indeed...I just think there would be serious questions asked as regards health and safety. 

My company are mostly males so not many females around that this would apply to.  Don't think they would go for it anyway.

Yes, they are definitely storing it for later (and I agree that I hope they are in well marked containers). There are several reasons for this. If a mother stops nursing for extended periods of time the volume of milk production will drop (since the body assumes that the baby must not need as much). In addition, having your breasts full of milk and not able to express can be quite painful for the woman. For those women who are working with infants at home (or in daycare), this is a way they can continue allowing the baby to receive breastmilk.

Unfortunately in the US we are nowhere near as progressive on our maternity laws. Most companies give just 8-12 weeks paid leave. You can do up to 12 months unpaid, but many people can't afford to do that. 

It just makes me think.....smokers already take additional breaks to feed their habit.  So if mothers are allowed extra breaks to express milk, where does that leave equality in the workplace as regards those who neither smoke nor express milk?!  Are those individuals allowed additional breaks?!

Also because we have longer periods of maternity leave in the UK, by the time mothers return to work, babies are usually past the age of being breast fed.

Seriously?  You are going to compare smokers to breastfeeding mothers? 

Not in my employer's eyes they don't! At my Induction recently it was underlined that smokers are not permitted to smoke in their discretionary tea breaks, they may only smoke in their lunch hour ... its the first time I have worked somewhere that this is reinforced and as a non-smoker I like the rule!



... this is where personalisation comes into play - an employer undertakes a risk assessment and if that employee needs to have breaks for something to avoid putting their health at risk it is up to the employee and the organisation to agree - it makes no difference to any other employee.  Equality means every employee has the right to request a risk assessment of their particular circumstances ...


... there is research that suggests that in the western world we stop breastfeeding too early and we should continue for much much longer ... in other words we have historically decided to stop breastfeeding to accommodate such things as returning to work ...

Cathy

Hello Cathy

You must hear it big time at a University ... classic example because every student needs different things to be able to learn effectively - some folk respond to visual (Powerpoints, whiteboard, etc) whereas some learn best from doing a task and reflecting.  It is very challenging to deliver training (or education) in this context.

In my newly adopted field it is about providing personalisation in care for people ... and we have to do that whilst providing personalisation for staff members providing that care ...

... and for Laura in her new venture it could mean considering special dietary requirements, perhaps, so she offers her products to the wider market and they can trust that they won't get an allergic reaction ... or could even include adding a braille notice on the packaging ...

I’m not being prejudice, but surely employers have to be careful in not showing favouritism to select groups of individuals.

You might as well say in order to get additional perks, I have to start smoking or become a breast-feeding mother. 

Lots of mothers who return to work still breast-feed but they don't express at work.  They return to work because they chose to.

I'm not sure that an employer can say that an employee can't smoke during a discretionary break, but only in their lunch break!

As for expressing milk once back at work, sometimes there are medical reasons for having to do this, so it's not for those of us who have no experience of it to judge.  As for women returning to work by the time babies have stopped being breastfed, not necessarily true.   I have heard of children being breast fed for quite some considerable time.

Discretionary breaks - the argument runs thus:

These are offered at the employers discretion during paid work time - ie it is not like a lunch break and unpaid.  The break is allowed in line with good health and safety practice of allowing office based workers a break from their DSE, and it is to stretch, move around and, in some cases have a hot or cold drink which may not normally be consumed at the work station. 

Many of us now simply have a brew when we like at our desk and don't take the discretionary breaks; there are some groups who are not working located together who use it as an impromptu team building session.

However during paid time employees may not leave the building, unless for business reasons, and therefore, in Scotland at least, smoking cannot take place ... in practice those who need to smoke try and time their business appointments so they are outwith the building at appropriate points in the day


Regarding favouritism Gee, that is why a risk assessment is required - to demonstrate that it is a real need that is being met ... perhaps if I move away from smokers and breast feeding mothers for a minute and use this example: 

• Elderly person 1 has fallen over a couple of times at home and is losing confidence.  Their home is in good repair, there are no trip hazards but they do have early signs of dementia and sometimes forget to stand up slowly and get their balance.  They have a spouse at home who helps keep the house well.
• Elderly person no 2 lives alone, shows no signs of dementia and their two falls have been hurrying along the hallway to answer the door and tripped over the loose carpet.

Everyone would agree that it is not appropriate for us as a society to ignore the fact that they are falling and at risk of injury. 

• Person no 1 would be likely to benefit from a more involved package of care which might include assistive technologies to alert their spouse when they start to stand (allows the spouse to continue their activities rather than sitting watching), they might find a walking frame or stick of assistance.
• Person no 2, however, from a risk assessment would benefit from having the loose carpet replaced or repaired and possibly a door intercom so they can let callers know they are on the way and don't need to hurry. 

The solution for no 1 is likely to be more expensive, but this is not showing favouritism, it is addressing the needs that they each have to help them to continue their independent living.

Cathy

The danger is, others will feel discriminated against and start to jump on the bandwagon to demand their rights.  You are going to end up with mother and toddler mornings at work! 

The workplace is just that, a place of work, and should remain so.  My company is a manufacturing site, engineering.  We have labs, a factory, machine shop, production area.  I've posted so many times about one building not being able to eat at their desk so there is no way a company like mine would be in a position to provide breast-feeding facilities in the middle of such an environment when he have to adhere to other rules set in stone by our customer.

The reason women in the UK take longer periods of maternity leave is, that by the time their child is a certain age, they can return to work and the child no longer needs breast fed.  If a mother choses to return to work that is her choice.  If she wants to express milk, she should do it at home.

As regards breaks, some people do not have time to be away from their desk for a proper tea-break.  Currently I hardly have time for lunch.  Previously I had to take breaks in the canteen because I was in a building where I couldn't eat or drink at my desk, so these breaks were scheduled.  Now I'm so busy, it's just not possible to down tools and say, sorry I can't do x y or z as it's now my tea-break.  Are we moving towards a situation where women will soon be able to say, sorry I have to express some milk, your meeting will have to wait.

I was asked by PM why I had used an analogy unrelated to the workplace - ie care for the elderly and I am answering on here to clear that point up for all the contributors to this thread

I used this deliberately because it illustrates how risk assessment addresses individual needs, without favouritism, considering directly comparable groups of people.   

Trying to draw comparisons between:

• discretionary allowance of smoking breaks (because no one has a right to a smoking break at work); and
• risk assessed agreements for health reasons on breastfeeding mothers (it is not a right to have the break it is a right to be assessed for the risk to her health)

could lead to confusion and misunderstandings.

The other reason for the choice was that not all of us are/have been/will be smokers and not all of us are/have been/will be breastfeeding mothers ... the majority of us will at some point in our lives have to address old age and infirmity - whether in ourself or people we are close to; so I was aiming to be inclusive of everyone reading the thread ...

Cathy

I see no relevance as regards the elderly.  We are talking about favouritisim to a select group of individuals in the workplace.

Just because I chose a different lifestyle, doesn't mean I shouldn't get perks.

Whoa everyone!

Laura started this thread as she is looking to maybe start over and do something else in her life.

Somehow we have developed into breastfeeding/smoking etc discussions.  Please start new threads if you're going to do this otherwise people searching for particular topics in future will struggle to find relevant stuff.

thanks - and happy Easter to all.

I agree with Jackie and if anyone does create a new thread, use topical climates.