PA and Secretary Community - Deskdemon.com

We have touched on this briefly in a recent posting and I just thought we could explore it further.

I for one do not seem to have ever had the working relationships that many of you seem to have with your bosses and line managers.

For whatever reason, be it culture, policy or just down to the individuals themselves, I have always found my relationship with any boss a professional one.  Perhaps that is due to the fact that I have faced redundancy and therefore have not been in any one company longer than 2, 3 or 5 years to establish a more deep-rooted working relationship.

I am a very private person, unlike others in my current company who like to hear themselves speak and involve themselves in everyone's business.  For me I am here to work and so my relationship with my boss is about work.

That said I have always found my bosses to be private themselves whereas other secretaries and bosses seem to be a bit more personal with each other.  Again that may come with a long-standing history of working with each other or perhaps they communicate better.

One of my last bosses was a nightmare (the bully) and no matter what I did to try and establish a better working relationship and help him, he didn't want to know.

At interviews we are often asked, how do do you deal with a difficult boss?  I always feel you can try ways of initiating a good working relationship but it is not always accepted and life can therefore be difficult.

I would be interested to hear your comments on this and whether you think your relationship with your boss should be more than just a professional one, or do you think things work just fine.  

I think I have found it very difficult due to being down-trodden by other bosses in the past.  It therefore makes me sit back a little instead of being pro-active at times.

What do you think?

There are several options.  Firstly, look at yourself.  I know, that makes you sit up and say 'oy!'  However, if you've had several bosses like that, then something is wrong with you.  Either you sit there and take it or you have a bad attitude.

Secondly, you could always try catering to your boss's character e.g. if they need their ego stroked, then do it.  Yes, it's a repugnant thought, but whilst everyone else around you will be saying they can't get along with that person, you'll be there with a perfect relationship.  

Thirdly, work with a little cunning.  Keep track of all emails and get your boss to communicate with you via email as much as possible ('I'm afraid I might forget that, could you send me an email as I'm working on something urgent for you right now' or 'I'd prefer it if you sent that to me by email').  If you can, write a memo whenever that person does anything out of line, but be sure to have evidence to back it up with e.g. eye witnesses or emails.  Yes, this might get you in to a little trouble initially, but you can think of it as a way of safeguarding the people who come after you and you never know, your boss has probably got a reputation already.  That's what happened to me.

Gee, I'm a little like you, although not completely.  I think my boss would like to have a more personal relationship than I do.  When I first came here, she would tell me her boyfriend troubles, for example.  This I do not want to hear.  I responded politely but never initiated the conversations, and I think she got the message.  

I do, however, ask her about her kids and her dog - how was your weekend/day off, etc. - that kind of thing.  I'll tell her generally what I did over the weekend without getting too personal.  

I like to be friendly with my boss and get them to know me as a person and me to know them as a person.  But I really don't want to get into the intimate details of their life or let them into mine.

Spitfire that is reassuring.  I too am more inclined to engage in general chat rather than get personal - it's just my way.  

I would say I am as friendly with any boss I have worked for as much I am with co-workers.  I always find if my boss doesn't divulge information that is his/her way of telling me they want to keep it that way.  

Getting to know your boss in a professional capacity is a different thing entirely from getting to know someone on a personal level.  I don't think you can ever get to know someone professionally and personally unless that individual opens the doors for you to do so.

I think if you are going to spend 40 hours a week with someone you need to like and respect them.  Getting to know about their personal life usually comes with the job.  If they have kids - what was the latest funny, problem or award.  The significant other while I don't want to down the details basics like birthdays (for gentle reminders) seem to come with the job.
IMHO part of being a good admin is more than just doing their typing, project management, it's doing what ever it takes to make their life less stressful.  Having said that I draw the line at personal duties like dry cleaning or banking, but my current boss would never ask that of me.  Sometimes we need jsut need  to be there for them to vent, it's not at us personally.
I think you might be short changing yourself by not opening up a little to your boss and chemistry plays a big part in a job.  It's not always the best person that is kept but the team player and the people that are liked.  

I disagree with some of your statements, atlantaz.

I would never want to be in the position of reminding my boss of their spouse's birthday, their anniversary, etc.  That really doesn't have anything to do with what I am being paid to do.  

My boss and I get along very well.  We like and respect each other.  We have very similar work styles and ethics.  She has a completely different personality from me, and her personal lifestyle is completely different from mine.  But that doesn't mean that we don't click as a team in the office - we do.  Let's just say that if we met outside of the office environment, I doubt that we would be personal friends.  

That being said, she liked my work so much that she wanted me and no one else in this job.  She never even opened it up for interviews; we handled it as a job reclassification for me because she didn't want to interview anyone else when she knew she wanted me.  She has told me time and again that I am "perfect" for this job.  I respect her work ethics and the way she handles the job.  She is by far the best administrator we have at the company, and she is willing to to teach me what she knows.  

Maybe we have a very unusual relationship - I don't know.  But I know that it works for us.  I'm happy for those of you who want to have personal relationships with your boss and do - that is fabulous.  I just know that I'm very happy with the way things are.  As I said, we do talk about our weekend - I ask how her kids are doing in college.  We always discuss our pets.  It's not that I don't ever discuss anything personal at all.  It's just that I try to keep it limited and not go into great details about our lives.  I felt really uncomfortable hearing all of the details of her ups and downs with her boyfriend.  She did come in one day in tears and came into my office to explain that she was upset over a breakup and she apologized for not being up to par that day.  I appreciated that very much.  One day I ended up in her office in tears because of something that happened medically with my mother.  And we laughed about having cried in each others office.  I do think it is good to let your co-workers, boss, or subordinate know if there is something truly upsetting you on a personal level, so they understand if your attitude is "off" that day.

It really isn't a cut-and-dried separation for me, which is why I said I felt similarly to Gee but not quite.  If I understand her posts correctly, she prefers an entirely professional relationship with no personal blend at all.  I like a little personal blend, but not too much.

Spitfire it's an open forum we won't all have the same opinion and I can respect that.  I'm glad you have a relationship that works for you and your boss.

I have the ideal working relationship with my boss.  He tells me what I need to know both personally and professionally.  I prefer it that way.  I am pretty intuitive and he knows it.  He has come to realize just how intuitive I am and eventually tells me when something is wrong, personally and professionally.  However, as far as details, he tells me what I need to know.  We communicate alot with e-mail and phone when he travels.  A usual day in the office is back to back meetings for him with a little time to breath, but not much chit chat.  Chemistry does play a huge part.  We have discovered in working as close as we do, we have finished each others sentences and thoughts.  He has even called me while on the road and I will be ready to push the speed dial to call him, and vice versa.  It helps to be in sync and makes the job easier.  He never asks me to run personal errands, however, there are days when I pick up his lunch when I go out because of his schedule.  I don't mind since he is always appreciative and never forgets to say thankyou.  We respect each other and are a very productive team.

I agree with the the above that being a good assistant is being a "right arm" and making their day a little less stressful.  When they are not stressed, you are not stressed is usually the way it works.  I place important dates like family birthdays and holidays on his schedule every year.  Not a big deal.  I guess the key is to find what works for you and your boss and go with it.  It makes life easier for you and them.

Much of it depends on how many people you are supporting. When I am supporting 7 or 8 people there's no way I can provide that kind of individualized attention. There simply aren't enough hours in the day.

However, when I have supported one person (usually a higher up like a CEO), then yes, it is not uncommon for me to have that type of relationship. Heck, my last boss, I knew more of his personal information than he did (birthdays and social security numbers for all of his family members - children, grandchildren, spouse), his bank account information and pins, his vehicle information - literally EVERYTHING. I was very involved with his personal life as well as his professional life. It was part of the job, fully expected, and in fact, specifically noted during the job interview by HR that it was expected.

In general, I usually have a semi close relationship with bosses, though. I don't have any desire to get too involved with their drama, but I do like to know in general about them as a person - their spouses and kids general information, likes and disklikes, etc.

Gee - I have noted your comments before about how little personal information you share or desire to learn about your bosses. There is nothing wrong with being a private person, but sometimes that can cause culture clashes in offices where everyone does know everyone's business (not my personally desired office either, so believe me I understand your reticence).

Sometimes we need to give a little in order to get a little. In other words, making a small effort to get to know the people around you and develop a more "friend"-ly relationship, like going to lunch can really help things run more smoothly in the office. The fact of the matter is though, that this can sometimes backfire as well, depending on the moral character of your co-workers.


Marie
Peer Moderator

"Semi-close relationship" - I like that term, Marie.  I think it describes my relationship with my boss perfectly!

I would not have liked to deal with the information you dealt with for your last boss.  That's just not me.  But since it was stated up front in the interview, you knew what you were getting into.  If it were me, I would have known right away that wouldn't be a good fit for me.  

I've worked in environments where the boss told me next to nothing about his personal life and some where I was told more than I would ever want to know (watching adult movies with date in hottub - early '90s before Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill changed the rules).  I've seen the financials of one boss, handled personal issues for him and even watched his granddaughter while they made a short visitation to his uncle's widow they didn't want to take the child too.  And one boss's wife watched my daughter for a couple days when I needed a last minute sitter.  

In general though, I prefer something in between close and know nothing at all.  I don't mind hearing about family vacations, children's antics, etc.  But I don't like to share much of my personal life with anyone, in or out of work.  I love my children and am proud of them - I tell them I love them and praise their accomplishments but I don't feel like I need to brag about them to everyone else (except those closest to us).  I have a BF but don't really talk about the ups and downs of our relationship with anyone - even family - beyond joking it would make a good Lifetime movie one day.  That's just me.

I've been burned to many times by co-workers and former friends.  To protect my privacy, I learned early on to adopt the mantra of "don't tell anyone anything you don't want everyone to know".  Some people will gossip out of malice and but others just slip up and the next thing you know everyone knows your business.

Michelle

My relationship with the boss I feel is very one sided. I have worked for him for six years and he never says thank you though he is not rude either. He has never sent me a birthday or Christmas card! I love  working for him as he is lovely to his patients. He is not a hard task master or a demanding boss.  I would love to tell him how much a thank you would mean to me but would hate to upset him. Any suggestions?  

Do you ever have 1 on 1 meetings to talk about performance?  Might be a time to mention it.

Hi Cathy

Do you have opportunities to thank him? in my experience the best way to raise someone's awareness of this is reciprocation - at first it may not be sincere, but as they come to see your response to being thanked they think about it more.  

Alternatively do you ever get the chance to comment on someone else's nice manners - in a more conversational way - this avoids causing upset because it is not a comment about him personally.

Good luck

Cathy

ps for all my Boss's faults he has always thanked me for my help and makes sure others know he appreciates it - and I feel free to tell him when he does something I appreciate too.

It's very hard to make anyone acknowledge you or say thank you.

One of the managers I worked for in my previous company was caught on one day doing just that, or not as the case was.  

I had completed a task for him, can't remember what, and another manager witnessed me confirming details and/or handing over paperwork whilst he was at my desk.  My manager walked away without saying thank you and the other manager who witnessed this said to me when he had gone, does he never say thank you?  My reply was honest, no, he doesn't.

Neither the manager who witnessed this nor the other PA who I worked alongside could believe what they saw.

I would find it almost impossible not to say thank you to someone in my every day working life, and don't think anyone deserves that kind of treatment.  However it could be the person you are talking about isn't aware of it.

If people don't have manners I'm certainly not about to tell them or point it out.

Thank you for this good advice.  I had not thought of trying this approach.  When he is back from leave next week I will give it a try and hope that it has the desired result.  Its not much to expect a thank you and it would mean so much to me and I really don't want to upset him as otherwise he is lovely.  I will let you know how it goes.  

Cathy

It does mean alot to hear or see those two little words, or even just one,  "Thanks".  I have to admit, my boss is very good at that.  He does not make a big fuss, but does not hesitate to say thanks.   It does make the work day go a little smoother.  Sometimes at the end of the day, when I tell him to have a good evening, he'll say thanks for today.  Start saying it and maybe it will catch on.      

Peaches that is a lovely thing for him to say.

I often think that some men treat their wives and secretaries a little the same.  For example, a lot of men who have secretarial support expect the support we provide as it is our job, and therefore don't feel the need to always say thank you.  Likewise some men also expect support in a similar way from their wives, whether it's regarding issues at home or just generally supporting their views on certain matters (only examples).

Before anyone goes to shoot the messenger , I am not for one minute suggesting all managers treat their secretaries and wives in the same way, but there are some who don't have the respect for women that we deserve.

This is a difficult conversation, but one well worth having with your boss, as it will help him grow in his management skills as well. If it were me and I felt strongly about the subject, I would likely try to catch him alone at a quiet non-stressed moment and say something along these lines:

"Bossie, I really enjoy working for you and I love my job. There is one small area of concern that I have. I have noticed that you almost never say thank you, no matter what task I complete. I know that I receive my salary for doing my work and that should be good enough, but honestly, this makes me worry that you are not entirely pleased with the job I have done. A sincere expression of appreciation on occasion would really mean a lot to me. I just wanted to let you know how I felt about the subject. I hope you'll take this into consideration for the future."

Marie
Peer Moderator

My boss and I are opposites but we have a great working relationship.  I think it's because I listen more than I speak.  I've found after many years in this field that often our senior managers just need to vent and they need to do so with someone they trust.  I sense that your boss is picking up on your body language as it does come through loud and clear in your post - don't get too close!  Nothing wrong with that but I think we get back what we put out.  I am not that interested in developing a personal relationship with my boss.  I have that with my family, friends and select co-workers.  My supervisor and I share superficial aspects of our personal lives such as where we went on the weekend, a bit of family news, etc. but I would never share any personal problems with him unless they were work related.  

If you are able to do your job with the relationship you now have with your boss that should be sufficient.  Not everyone likes to be  "buddy-buddy"!